Tell us what you think − proposed cuts to transport

[Old Cruser]

Thoughts on this latest cut back to transport.

Is it going to  mean cut backs in staffing to Stage Coach staff if some funding is pulled out as in the subsidised bus network?

Cutting back on transport which takes people to work and training may well mean that the people who use this may not be able to afford the bus fares?

Not sure why such as the C/T and Dial a bus can't be made into a business as they are needed, it wouldn't help the individual to pay the proper fare - would it??




Our cabinet has approved plans to ask local people about the council-funded transport services they use.

We need to save £157 million over the next five years up to 2018, including potentially making savings on funding for council-supported bus and community transport services.

But before any decisions are made Derbyshire residents are being urged to take part in a user survey to help us decide on any proposals for change which will then go to a full public consultation, if appropriate.   

Around 80% of bus services in Derbyshire are run commercially, carrying 27.5 million passengers a year. The bus operator sets the route, timetables and fares − there is no contract with us to run these services, typically daytime services in towns and main routes between towns.

We can also provide buses where no commercial service would run − called the supported or subsidised bus network − which currently costs us £3.7million a year and provides journeys for 3.8 million passengers.

Bus operators run these services on our behalf under contract. Typically they are rural, early morning, evening and Sunday services and some daytime services on estate roads.

We also support seven community transport  schemes to deliver a range of services to people with mobility difficulties or those who live in rural areas and are unable to use mainstream public transport; typically these are pre-booked journeys to health appointments − aCTive travel − and home to town 'shopping' buses called Dial-a-Bus. The budget to provide these services is around £1.4 million.

We also currently contribute £50,000 to the Wheels to Work scheme, run by Rural Action Derbyshire, and which helps people get to work and training opportunities.

Councillor Andy Botham, Deputy Cabinet Member for Jobs, Economy and Transport said:

We're having to think the unthinkable. We do not want to make these unrelenting cuts which will affect services that local people rely on but we have been left with no choice but to consider this and some very difficult decisions will have to be made.

"We will not take any decisions lightly and before we agree anything we need to understand what the impact of cutting or reducing funding for any of these transport services will be."

The survey to find out how well-used the various community transport and council-funded bus services are, is due to be carried out between October and December. Residents will also be asked what kind of services are a priority.

Further consultation, which will include online and paper questionnaires, face-to-face discussions  and promotion through social media, will potentially take place in 2015.

Councillor Botham added:

We are urging people to take part in these surveys and consultations so that we can fully understand the impact of any decisions we may make. We want to ensure the funding that we are still able to provide is put to the best possible use so that we can still enable people to get out and about."

[ironsky2]

I'm not going to be Mr popular with this suggestion and will sent to the naughty corner Why not scrap the Gold Card scheme and return it to half fare why do I say that? simple its not sustainable in the long term and has put many councils though out the country into debt. If this was done at least there is a way to give senior citizens and disabled low coast travel it may have a knock on effect on fares too. Or another idea is lower fares across the board for everyone so no need to have travel passes if private companies refused to do that perhaps its time to let the council run the buses again which in turn would give them an income which could be then used to fund Community Transport and Dial a Bus which are under threat .

[Fly]

Yet again, greed by some broke the bus system. Subsidies etc.
The Gold Card scheme also had a knock on effect to taxi drivers IMHO.
I think you have a couple of good points ironsky

[Pete]

Makes a change to drop pensioners in the shit to get the country out of financial trouble caused by the greedy rich and runaway capitalism.

It gives the working poor a break I suppose.

Plus, yesterday on Newsnight we were told that the Tory economic plan had gone wrong and we are deeper in the poo after 4 years of Osborne's austerity.

I wouldn't trust the coalition with our yardbrush...

[ironsky2]

Ture Pete, to be honest I don't think any party can get this country out of this mess the nation debt is too massive now and growing each day it can only end one way - total economic collapse.

[Pete]

Funnily enough I watched a YouTube video today about an impending total economic crash coming America's way very soon - scary stuff.

[Old Cruser]

I'm not going to be Mr popular with this suggestion and will sent to the naughty corner Why not scrap the Gold Card scheme and return it to half fare why do I say that? simple its not sustainable in the long term and has put many councils though out the country into debt. If this was done at least there is a way to give senior citizens and disabled low coast travel it may have a knock on effect on fares too. Or another idea is lower fares across the board for everyone so no need to have travel passes if private companies refused to do that perhaps its time to let the council run the buses again which in turn would give them an income which could be then used to fund Community Transport and Dial a Bus which are under threat .

Actually I agree with you ironsky.
I have a Gold Card, but rarely use it. Even if I did I would say it would a fair enough system which gave a small discount to those which needed it.
The dial a bus is beneficial to so many who struggle, however I do think it is fair enough for these people to pay a fair price for this service.
I took part in the disabled children's  questionnaire and ticked the box for journey's used to be payable instead of free.
Why should it be free?
Why should any of our transport be free? 
But - I do think that people who are maybe having to use public transport to go to interviews for work should actually at least be able to claim it back.

How viable would it be for the councils to take back over the running of the buses?

[eabbus]

I agree with all of the above. I am driving a dial a bus tomorrow, they all pay £2 return yet so many people use gold cards on the other buses for unnecessary trips to Sheffield etc free of charge.

It wouldn't be viable for the council to take services back now as they no longer have the fleet or the money to purchase a fleet like stagecoach have. Then theres the funds that have to be available for maintainance of each vehicle to prove to the traffic commissioner that they can maintain the fleet to get the operators licence. That's a ridiculous amount per vehicle.

What the council could do is make the big operators sign into a quality contract to guarantee bus frequency and set fare prices but then you have the risk of stagecoach not agreeing (why would they) and pulling their vehicles out of service! It is currently happening in newcastle (nexus contracts) it isnt going to the councils plans.

Blackpool still operate their own transport very well but they haven't sold up and had to start again from scratch!

[Scimitar]

I'm not going to be Mr popular with this suggestion and will sent to the naughty corner Why not scrap the Gold Card scheme and return it to half fare why do I say that? simple its not sustainable in the long term and has put many councils though out the country into debt. If this was done at least there is a way to give senior citizens and disabled low coast travel it may have a knock on effect on fares too. Or another idea is lower fares across the board for everyone so no need to have travel passes if private companies refused to do that perhaps its time to let the council run the buses again which in turn would give them an income which could be then used to fund Community Transport and Dial a Bus which are under threat .

The Local authority has long since cut the subsidy it paid to bus companies for its Gold Card scheme. Bus companies have absorbed the cost. The Government reduced the subsidy that Bus companies can claim against fuel costs. Bus companies absorbed the cost. The B-Line scheme for kids is no cheaper now than a single child fare. I suggest the Gold card subsidy will survive until after the next election & then will be dropped. The subsidies for early morning and late night routes remains to be seen. Some I drive seem pointless & the fuel outstrips the revenue. Maybe if Gold Card holders just paid 50p a trip it would help keep some other services open. Otherwise I don't know what to suggest, other than getting more paying customers on the bus to subsidise journeys that don't make a profit. I guess Stagecoach will do their best, but some inevitable cuts will be unpopular.Makes you wonder where this is all going - I thought our economy was recovering - doesn't seem like it does it?

[Old Cruser]

It's really interesting to read the thoughts and comments by actual drivers who know and understand far more than the rest of us.
Can I ask if drivers have actually been involved in any feed back to the council on what their views are on this as you are the front line workers and I reckon will know more than anyone about what is workable

[ironsky2]

I think the way forward regarding Gold Cards is to abolish it. When Gordon Brown's Labour was in power it was brought out as a vote winning tactic to get the senior citizen's and disabled votes for Labour no thought was given on how it could be funded long term. In time no bus company will be able absorbed the cost due to rising fuel costs. What might be better is to lower all fares on all routes which in turn could get more people on the buses which could keep routes viable at least. It will not be popular move by getting rid of Gold Cards and which party does it will perhaps cost them a general election but the country cant afford it no more.

[eabbus]

We as drivers have had no input but I don't know about management. Our head office is in Ripley so they only see what we do on paper rather than seeing us to talk to every day. Regarding the dial a bus I think the company is trying to merge a few routes together to get more users on them to reduce cost. The users I spoke too yesterday said they couldn't manage without the help other than paying for taxis but would all taxi drivers help with shopping into their home? One lady said she would pay £5 for the service, I'm not sure everybody would as we live in a world where everybody likes something for nothing. The gold card should of always stayed at half fare for elderly as it was when they were just county council bus passes and free for disabled who can't handle money or need a lot of health appointments.

[Scimitar]

I think we need to go back to concessionary fares for senior citizens. Let's face it, most of them can afford it, & children have to pay to get to school, so the parent pays for that!
When I started in 2005 you had concessionary fares for OAP's, & they quite happily paid. Furthermore they could catch the bus at any time of the morning - unlike now because the free Gold card scheme is available from 9.30am onwards - prior to that it's full fare.
From 9.30am onwards, whatever route you are on, you are inevitably overwhelmed by OAP's at every stop, which we expect and understand, but this also has a knock on effect in terms of punctuality.
The 9.30 limit was set so that workers could get to town without the proliferation of OAP's at the same time.
So, a suggestion would be (as now) full fare for OAP's prior to 9.30, followed by the same concessionary fare as they paid years ago on production of the Gold Card after 9.30.
Revenue has to be generated somewhere, otherwise previously supported services by DCC will simply go if unprofitable. The knock on effect otherwise means a job like mine is harder to get (fewer drivers needed), & I guess our pay rises will suffer.
Anyway, that's what I would do, & I think it just might help keep some of the currently funded by DCC journeys still running after funding is withdrawn.

[Old Cruser]

I think it would have been very useful for DCC to have asked for some feed back from not only the management but also the fron line workers - being the drivers, both scimitar and eabbus are telling us similar ways of at least beginning to resolve this and I would think that their suggestions a pretty viable.
Pity, the drivers haven't been official consulted in all this