Author Topic: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’  (Read 6147 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Pete

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 5,702
    • View Profile
    • Peter Maycock - Chesterfield
Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« on: April 27, 2012, 07:51:19 PM »
Just read on the DT website that "Half of folk on benefit are ‘fit to work’."

Now we all know that certain people would do anything rather than get off their arses and work for a living, but I think the results are a bit skewed. This "news" comes after Stephen Hill, 53, of Duckmanton, died of a heart attack, one month after being told he was "fit to work", even though he was waiting for major heart surgery.

Similarly David Groves from Staveley died from a heart attack the night before taking his work ­capability assessment.
The 56-year-old, from Staveley, Derbyshire, worked for 40 years as a miner and telecoms engineer but stopped on doctors' orders after an earlier heart attack and a string of strokes.

Maybe Atos, the company hired by the government to assess the fitness of claimants, are not quite as good as their website suggests. They say, "Our tailored and cost-effective OH, wellbeing and employee assistance programme services are proven to reduce sickness absence, increase workforce productivity and deliver return on investment." I wonder whether the phrase "deliver return on investment" is the one that appealed most to the government?

Also, an article on the Daily Mirror website headed "32 die a week after failing test for new incapacity benefit" states that "We've used the Freedom of Information Act to discover that, between January and August last year, 1,100 claimants died after they were put in the "work-related activity group". This group - which accounted for 21% of all claimants at the last count - get a lower rate of benefit for one year and are expected to go out and find work.

The Atos company are on a £100 million a year contract.

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/local/half-of-folk-on-benefit-fit-to-work-1-4490663
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/04/32-die-a-week-after-failing-in.html
http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/local/fit-to-work-dad-had-heart-attack-1-4228295

Not saying that lazy folks don't try and get out of working, I even remember my dad explaining what a "glass back" was when I asked why one of our neighbours didn't work for a living - just saying that there are two sides to every story and we shouldn't get too excited by government statistics, often put out to take our attention away from more serious problems that they cannot sort.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

Fly

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 8,164
  • ' 2E0IFY '
    • View Profile
    • Taximania
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 08:04:08 PM »
Saw this myself but didn't post.

Apparently Boza has the worst percentage.
Coalite's closed. Knicker factory, closed. There's no pits left.

Let's look at Chesterfield.
Lamp Caps, Dema Glass, Trebor, TI, Donkins, anyone care to name a few more.

I read this somewhere on this subject.
Quote
Well done Tories I say, for stopping spongers claim welfare. I'm all for welfare going to the right place, but this was a problem Labour had long refused to deal with & was one of their downfalls.

Where are people supposed to get jobs. pillock !!
Over 90% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair

Pete

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 5,702
    • View Profile
    • Peter Maycock - Chesterfield
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 08:10:59 PM »
They could move down to London where there are jobs, except they couldn't earn enough to live there so they would be moved to Stoke on Trent where there are no jobs...

Oh dear.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

emmz

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 571
    • View Profile
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 10:01:15 PM »
yes ive seen that quote fly, im keeping lips sealed as this subject pisses me off far too much!!!

therealjr

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 2,148
    • View Profile
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 10:11:42 PM »

I read this somewhere on this subject.
Where are people supposed to get jobs. pillock !!

By people who own companies taking on staff and paying them a decent wage.  :D
I'm not an Alcoholic. They go to meetings
I'm a drunk I go to the pub

Old Cruser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 8,746
  • Water please Not wine
    • View Profile
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 09:15:29 AM »
By people who own companies taking on staff and paying them a decent wage.  :D


Not many of them about JR a lot of work these days seems to be part time and little insentive in the pockets for Sundays and Bank holidays. Sad times  :(
The old lady with the wonky middle finger

Big Dave

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 703
    • View Profile
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 09:49:20 AM »
The people I know who run their own businesses are considering laying people off because the work isn't there, not taking more on.  This idea that SMEs (Small Medium Enterprises) will help save the country from slipping further into recession by generating growth is simply Tory bullshit.

I'm in favour of getting people off benefits and into work (who wouldn't be) provided they're able to do a job but I read a few days ago of a company that recruited a handful of workers and on the frst day, not a single one turned up for work. One girl had been told by her dad that as she was better off financially by not working she shouldn't go to work, so she didn't....

It's that sort of mentality that needs to be overcome - quite how I really don't know.


k4blades

  • Guest
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 10:19:59 AM »
The first point is that these tests are designed to establish which type of benefit a person should get.
Incapacity benefit is meant to be for those with genuine issues that prevent them from work, or make working more difficult. For various reasons it is paid at a higher rate than normal job seekers allowance, imagine someone who is incontinent...they will have higher clothing / laundry bills. Also, I understand that if you get incapacity it has a knock on, meaning you can get other benefits such as a mobility allowance for a car.
The problem is that in the past it has been very easy for someone to say they aren't fit enough to work, maybe they've got a bit of back ache, or feeling stressed, etc so they go on incapacity when really the problem is either made up, or very minor. Not only does this make it very expensive for the country, it mis-represents the unemployment figures because those on incapacity are not classed as unemployed, but worse of all, it is robbing the pot of money that is there for those people who genuinely need it.
There for, it is clearly right that the only people claiming IB are those who are incapacitated, the rest should be on jobseekers allowance.

The next point, as Dave as mentioned, is that often people these say they are better off on benefits than going to work. That is simply not acceptable, never ever, should we pay someone to NOT work, if there is a job which they refuse to do. Govts do what they can to help those on low pay, (minimum wage, tax credits, raising tax thresholds, etc) and we could argue that they could do more, I would agree with that, but we also have to look at the other side of the coin....if people feel better off on benefits, it suggests that benefits are too generous and ought to be cut.

And the next point about whether or not the jobs are there. Yes it is difficult at the moment, but not impossible, some businesses are expanding and growing. But the real problem with the jobs market is that many people, mainly the young, don't want to do the hard, dirty, menial jobs anymore. They have been brought up in a culture of being able to get whatever they want, right now. They think they can go on some talent show and fame will land on their doorstep, or they've fallen for the lie that if they go to Uni and get a degree they will get some highly paid job just like that. Ask a young person today to go and spend 6 hours carrot picking in a field and they would die of shock, so God help them if they had to spend a day down a coal mine or in a steelworks!
And this mentality was encouraged under Labour who spent years telling us that it was OK because immigrants could do the job so we saw massive growth in immigration, which is still happening, with people coming all over the world, but mainly Eastern Europe into our country, why if there's no jobs!. Labour told us they were not claiming benefits, they were doing jobs that other people won't do, and as a consequence, our public services and infrastructure are now facing unbelievable pressures.
Common sense tells you that if there's work to be done, then you stop the immigrants coming here and get those claiming benefits to do the work instead. But both immigrants and benefit dependants are typical Labour voters, hence their encouragement of the system.

If Labour had an ounce of integrity they would feel ashamed of the mess they have got this country into to satisfy their own egotistical and meglomaniac power trips, sadly though, they don't care.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 10:23:40 AM by k4blades »

Pete

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 5,702
    • View Profile
    • Peter Maycock - Chesterfield
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 10:38:30 AM »
What a shame. That was a good post and I was broadly agreeing with you. Then it turned into your usual anti Labour rant.

>> If Labour had an ounce of integrity they would feel ashamed of the mess they have got this country into

Conveniently you ignore the worldwide melt down caused by the likes of fannie mae and freddie mac, etc.

For the record I am not a Labour supporter.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

Old Cruser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 8,746
  • Water please Not wine
    • View Profile
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 01:24:07 PM »
I agree with a lot of what you have said K4Blades but don't think it is any one political party to blame - they are all as bad as each other in my book. Have been around too long and have little interest in any party these days.
What's that saying never get into discussions of Politics or religion??? Well generally I don't as they very often go further than 'heated discussion'
--- some of it I agree is to do with our immigration laws and the fact that we are 'over crowded' as far as the work situation goes.
  It is sad though that the British people have lost their pride, self worth and get up and go as far as the work situation goes.
 But many of the immigrants will work all hours doing any job for money.
A good post with some good very true points K4
The old lady with the wonky middle finger

k4blades

  • Guest
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 01:56:42 PM »
I agree that both parties are as bad as each other, for example, I specifically said that immigration hasn't got any better under the tories, though they go on about it.
And no I didn't forget about the global meltdown, I fully accept that not all the problems in the world are caused by Labour, but you started this thread Pete, specifically about new tests that are taking people off incapacity and moving them to jobseekers. That's an initiative set up by the Tories that helps to address a problem that exploded under Labour.
Not party political, just facts.

Pete

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 5,702
    • View Profile
    • Peter Maycock - Chesterfield
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2012, 02:24:09 PM »
You're right, I started  this thread off, but it was about the fact that some folks were forced back to work when their doctor advised against it. It mentioned that "32 people die a week after failing test for new incapacity benefit" - the post was meant to highlight the fact that very ill people were considered fit to work by Atos, who are paid a million pounds a year - and I don't think they are as careful as they should be.

The fact that it went totally off topic and nobody commented on the 1,100 claimants that died through being judged wrong by Atos and it was you who brought party politics into it mentioning Labour. I only referenced the government.

My take on politics? George Galloway for PM!
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

k4blades

  • Guest
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2012, 03:35:36 PM »
Well I'm sorry that I didn't stay within the strict confines of you OP, as you can see it had gone off topic by the time I posted, but the fact that it became political is not surprising.....its a political issue and you can't discuss political issues without mentioning political parties.
In the interests of balance, I refer you to the thread about double dip recession where I also knock the Tories, and the LibDems if I remember correctly. The point is that I'm not against any one party as your earlier posts suggests, but I do believe in holding politicians accountable for their actions, irrespective of which party they stand for.

My take on politics; me for PM.

Pete

  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 5,702
    • View Profile
    • Peter Maycock - Chesterfield
Re: Half of folk on benefit ‘fit to work’
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 04:09:21 PM »
>> My take on politics; me for PM.

That's it - I'm off to the Dominican Republic...

 :P
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk